Table of Contents
- Circular motion
- Circular motion by Richard Conn Henry
- Acceleration
- Notes on circular motion and linear motion
- Uniform circular motion is forced motion
- Circular motion is independent of mass m of the orbiting body
- \(v^2/r\) or \(r/t^2\)?
- Fictional imaginary interaction between centripetal and centrifugal things
- All properties of circular must be learned and memorized
- Newton’s forceful explanation of orbits
- Doğal hareket daireseldir
Circular motion
Circular motion by Richard Conn Henry
- Circular motion
- An extraordinarily simple and transparent derivation of the formula for the acceleration that occurs in uniform circular motion is presented
Acceleration
- To me there is no change of direction without change in speed
- If you assume change in direction without change in speed you can built a perpetual motion machine
- change in direction without change in speed violates conservation laws
- but in circular motion, uniform circular motion, they indicate velocity as a vector tangent to the radius
- the point is not moving in the direction of the vector
- the vector points to the direction that the point would fly off
- but the point is moving on the circle
- the point is moving on the circle but its velocity is directed towards a direction that the point is not moving
- so the velocitiy vector is pointing in the direction where the point tends
- what is the speed of this vector or the magnitude of this vector
- so I compute the speed from \[v=\frac{2 \pi r}{T}\]
- is this the magnitude of that vector?
- we can do all this with numbers
- so, as the vector turns on the circle its direction changes
- but seen from the center its direction is not changing, it is always perpendicular to the radius
- so they take two moments in time, imagine those vectors are in the center, now two vectors make an angle
- this angle is the acceleration?
- why?
- this looks like the difference of the vectors
- I have to investigate
- there are several versions
- and I don’t see why this vector is drawn towards the center and not away from the center
- this appears to be a choice
Notes on circular motion and linear motion
- Circular motion appears to be at the center of everything in physics
- circular motion is related to linear motion by simple harmonic motion which is nothing more than the projection of circular motion on a line
- We have pi…
- We have rotational motion where each point on the raduis moves with different velocity. This causes the tension on the radius.
- The whole world seems to be the continual fight between circular motion and linear motion.
- Continual fight between line and circle
- but we have a hard time to define curved line and straight line
- We can draw a circle and its diameter
- These are our abstractions for curved line and straight line
- But straight line must be the forced line. I disagree with Newton in this case
- We don’t observe straight line in nature. All lines are curved lines in space.
- We must try to unravel circular or curved motion to obtain straight line
- so a straight line must be unstable because we need a force to keep it straight.
Uniform circular motion is forced motion
- We need to impart motion to keep it moving uniformly
- Otherwise it will slow down
Circular motion is independent of mass m of the orbiting body
[chatgpt]
Also see Kepler’s Rule
I know that Huygens discovered the formula v2/r and later Newton also derived the same formula. And there are several modern derivations like vector derivation. Since v2/r does not include mass m of the body in circular motion, can we assume that centrifugal tendency is independent of the mass m of the body in circular motion?
Yes, you are correct to observe that the formula \( v^2/r \), which describes the centripetal acceleration of a body in circular motion, does not include the mass \( m \) of the body. This implies that the centripetal acceleration (and consequently the “centrifugal tendency,” if we consider the inertial reaction to centripetal force) is independent of the mass of the body in circular motion.
Let’s explore this idea in detail:
—
1. Centripetal Force and Acceleration
The centripetal force is given by:
\[
F = \frac{mv^2}{r}
\]
Here, \( F \) is the force needed to keep the body moving in a circular path. Dividing \( F \) by the mass \( m \), we get the centripetal acceleration:
\[
a = \frac{F}{m} = \frac{v^2}{r}
\]
Notice that \( a \) depends only on the velocity \( v \) of the body and the radius \( r \) of the circular motion, but not on the mass \( m \).
—
2. Centrifugal Tendency
The “centrifugal tendency” you refer to is likely the inertial resistance of the body to the centripetal force. According to Newton’s first law of motion, a body in motion tends to remain in motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force. In circular motion, the body “wants” to move tangentially due to inertia. This resistance or tendency is reflected in the requirement of a centripetal force to maintain the circular motion.
Since the centripetal acceleration \( a = v^2/r \) is independent of the mass \( m \), the inertial tendency to “move outward” (what we might call the centrifugal tendency in the non-inertial frame) is also independent of \( m \).
—
3. Comparison with Gravitational and Inertial Mass
This independence from mass in circular motion is conceptually similar to the observation that gravitational acceleration \( g \) is the same for all objects near Earth’s surface, regardless of their mass. In both cases, the acceleration is determined by factors other than the mass of the body itself:
- For centripetal motion, \( v \) and \( r \) dictate \( a \).
- For free-fall motion, \( g \) depends on the gravitational field.
—
4. The Broader Implication
The independence of the centrifugal tendency from the mass of the body highlights a key feature of Newtonian mechanics: the universality of acceleration in the context of forces. This universality underlies much of classical physics and aligns with principles such as the equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass.
—
Conclusion
Yes, you can assume that the centrifugal tendency (or the inertial resistance to circular motion) is independent of the mass of the body. This reflects the fact that the centripetal acceleration required for circular motion depends only on the velocity and radius of the motion, not on the mass of the object in motion.
\(v^2/r\) or \(r/t^2\)?
[chatgpt]
ok. v2/r has dimensions of accelerations and simplifies to r/t2. Why did Huygens write it in the form v2/r emphasizing the velocity instead of acceleration? We still write it as v2/r, explain why?
To compute the velocity \( v \) in circular motion, you can use its relationship with the orbital period \( T \) or the angular velocity \( \omega \). Here’s how it works:
—
1. From the Orbital Period \( T \):
The orbital period \( T \) is the time it takes for one complete revolution along the circular path. The distance traveled in one revolution is the circumference of the circle, \( 2\pi r \), where \( r \) is the radius of the circular path.
The velocity \( v \) is then given by:
\[
v = \frac{\text{Distance traveled in one period}}{\text{Time for one period}} = \frac{2\pi r}{T}
\]
—
2. From the Angular Velocity \( \omega \):
The angular velocity \( \omega \) is the rate at which the object sweeps out angles in radians per second. It is related to the period \( T \) by:
\[
\omega = \frac{2\pi}{T}
\]
The tangential velocity \( v \) is related to \( \omega \) by the radius \( r \):
\[
v = \omega r
\]
Thus, using \( T \), we can rewrite \( v \) as:
\[
v = \left(\frac{2\pi}{T}\right)r = \frac{2\pi r}{T}
\]
This confirms the equivalence of the two methods.
—
3. Summary of Relationships:
- From \( T \): \( v = \frac{2\pi r}{T} \)
- From \( \omega \): \( v = \omega r \), where \( \omega = \frac{2\pi}{T} \)
—
Why is \( v \) Often Easier to Measure?
- In many practical cases, you can measure the distance an object travels in a given time (e.g., track the motion of a planet or a car on a circular track), giving \( v \) directly.
- Orbital period \( T \) often requires observing a full revolution, which can take a long time (e.g., for planets).
- While angular velocity \( \omega \) is useful in rotational mechanics, measuring tangential velocity \( v \) directly (e.g., using speed sensors) is more common in real-world applications.
By using \( v \), you bypass the need to measure \( T \) or \( \omega \) explicitly, making it a more intuitive and practical starting point for many problems in circular motion.
Fictional imaginary interaction between centripetal and centrifugal things
I don’t understand the quoted text. Can you explain with more detail?
Let me break it down step by step, starting with the concepts of centripetal force, inertia, and “centrifugal tendency,” and clarifying what I meant in that quoted text.
—
1. Centripetal Force
- Definition: Centripetal force is the force that acts on a body moving in a circular path, directed toward the center of the circle. It keeps the object in its curved trajectory.
- Formula:
\[ F_{\text{centripetal}} = \frac{mv^2}{r} \]
This force is required to counteract the body’s natural tendency (due to inertia) to move in a straight line, as stated by Newton’s First Law.
—
2. Inertia and the Tendency to Move Outward
- Inertia is the property of a body to resist changes in its state of motion. If no net force acts on the body, it will continue moving in a straight line at constant speed.
- In circular motion, an object’s inertia causes it to “want” to move in a straight line tangential to the circle at every instant.
- To keep the object in circular motion, a centripetal force must act inward, toward the center of the circle. Without this force, the object would fly off tangentially.
—
3. What is the “Centrifugal Tendency”?
- The “centrifugal tendency” refers to the apparent outward effect observed from the perspective of someone in the rotating frame.
- This “outward” effect is not a real force but an inertial effect. It’s the result of the body’s resistance (inertia) to the inward centripetal force. Essentially, the body “pushes back” against the centripetal force due to its inertia.
—
4. Why Is It Called a Reaction?
In Newtonian mechanics:
- The centripetal force is a real, physical force that pulls the body inward.
- The body’s reaction, due to its inertia, is what creates the sensation of being “pushed outward” in a rotating reference frame.
This “reaction” is often referred to as the centrifugal tendency, although it’s not a separate force in the inertial frame of reference. In a rotating (non-inertial) frame, this effect is modeled as the centrifugal force, which is a fictitious or apparent force.
—
5. Summary of the Quoted Text
When I said:
> (and consequently the “centrifugal tendency,” if we consider the inertial reaction to centripetal force)
I meant:
- The body’s tendency to resist being accelerated inward (due to inertia) gives rise to the sensation of being “pushed outward.”
- This is the **centrifugal tendency**—an inertial effect caused by the body’s natural resistance to changes in its straight-line motion.
This tendency is independent of the mass \( m \) because inertia affects all objects equally, as described earlier. The sensation of being “pushed outward” (what we call “centrifugal force” in a rotating frame) is a direct consequence of the inward centripetal force acting on the body.
All properties of circular must be learned and memorized
Newton’s forceful explanation of orbits
- We always ask to clarify Newton’s use of the word force.
- Physicist accepted Newton’s supernatural force and they invented several kinds of forces and attributed properties to these supernatural forces, such as “conservative forces”.
- If Newton is using the word force to mean, e.g. centrifugal “force” of sling motion, then, this is fine because here “force” is created by contact. There is nothing mysterious or hidden. You drive the sling by imparting motion to it. We see that the string transfers the motion of the hand to the stone and also the string constrains the stone, forcing it to move on a circle.
- But in the of orbits, there’s no string connecting the center to the orbiting body.
- Then, if Newton is using “centripetal force” to explain a natural phenomenon we call orbit by a supernatural cause nowhere to be seen, existing only in Newton’s mind and hidden under euphemistic names like force, and gravity, then we dismiss outright as void such a proposition.
- In this Prop. 4, Newton7s “centripetal force” is a supernatural cause and we reject this proposition as void.
- Natural philosophy does not accipt explanation of natural phenomena by supernatural causes such as God or Newton’s force.
- Newton’s status of the greatest scientist ever lived must be downgraded because Newton routinely uses supernatural causes to explain natural phenomena.
- I don’t understand why I should accept Newton’s supernatural cause, here called “centripetal force” as a natural cause. I reject this sophistry and deception.
- Newton’s disciples blinded by Newton’s authority may accept supernatural causes because Newton calls his supernatural cause withe a physical sounding name.
- It’s about time we question Newton’s authority and expose Newton as the greatist scientifc fraud ever lived.
- Can we dismiss Prop. 4 on these bases.
- Why are we supposed to go alıng with Newton’s absurd assumptions.
- “The centripetal forces [‘the supernatural cause that does not exist nowhere in thes geometry except in my imagination’] of bodies that describe different circles with uniform motion tend towards the centers of the same circles.”
- Forget about the 2 circles.
- Newton is saying that in uniform circular motion there exists tendency toward the center of the circle. In this geometry there’s nothing at the center by definition. The center is a fictional of geometric point that appears because the body moves on a circle. There’s no circle either. We draw a circle to describe the orbit but the body is only at one single point at any given moment.
- And there is nothing physical tying the center to the body.
- Nothing drives the body. There is nothing at the center that drives the body.
- Newton’s sentence implies that thes “centripetal force” belongs to the body because Newton writes “centripet forces of bodies”. But this is sophistry. We can never win by arguing with Newton’s sophistry. He is a master of sophistry, one of the best ever. Newton already said several times that he has no idea where this force resides. It can be anywhere Newton wants as the case may be.
- If we ask Newton if this centripetal force resides in the body Newton will absolutely deny this and tell us that he has no idea where this force is because Newton as the greatest scientis ever lived needs to protect his scientifec image as the great scientist by claiming not hypothesizing about the cause and weheabouts of this force.
- But “centripetal force” is the cause. It’s the supernatural cause, like God, and exists only in Newton’s imagination. We don’t see thes centripetal force represented in the geometry.
- So, in uniform circular motion these exists a force towards the center and this force is proportional to the square of the arcs described in the same times divided by the radius.
- So this is Huygens’ \(v^2/r\), right?
- Newton is preparing the grounds for his supernatural cause and using the sling motion as analogy.
- \(v^2/r\), here \(v^2\) is the squares of the arsc in unit time.
- No. Because orbital motion is not sling motion.
Doğal hareket daireseldir
- Doğal hareket dairesel hareketse ve hareket sadece transfer edilebiliyorsa, bütün hareketlerin dairesel olması gerekir.
- It must be that forced motion is rectilinear motion.
- Can both circular motion and rectilinear motion be natural?
- Which is more natural? Which comes first?
I asked chatgpt
Can you translate this sentence from Turkish to English and comment what you think about it in terms of physics or philosophy or even history of science: “Doğal hareket dairesel hareketse ve hareket sadece transfer edilebiliyorsa, bütün hareketlerin dairesel olması gerekir.”
Translation:
“If natural motion is circular motion and if motion can only be transferred, then all motions must be circular.”
—
Commentary:
This sentence sets up a logical argument based on two premises:
- Natural Motion Is Circular:
The claim that natural motion is inherently circular has deep roots in classical and medieval cosmologies. For example, in Aristotelian physics, the heavens were thought to be perfect and eternal, moving in perfect circles because the circle was considered the most perfect geometric form. This idea was influential in shaping early scientific thought about celestial mechanics. - Motion Can Only Be Transferred:
The notion that motion cannot be created or destroyed but only transferred resembles an early intuition about conservation principles. While not a full formulation of the modern conservation of momentum or energy, it hints at the idea that motion must come from somewhere—it is passed from one body to another.
Implications in Physics and Philosophy:
- Physics:
If both premises were true, then every motion in the universe would be circular. However, modern Newtonian mechanics shows us that in the absence of an external force, an object will continue in a straight line (Newton’s First Law of Inertia). Circular motion, in fact, requires a centripetal force acting on an object. Thus, the conclusion that “all motions must be circular” contradicts our empirical observations of linear and other forms of motion. This discrepancy highlights the evolution from early ideas about motion to the more accurate descriptions provided by classical mechanics and, later, modern physics. - Philosophy:
Philosophically, the sentence is a good example of reasoning based on foundational assumptions. It shows how starting from certain premises (here, the nature of motion and the means by which it is transferred) can lead to broad conclusions that must be checked against reality. The absurdity of the conclusion (since we observe many non-circular motions) suggests that one or both of the initial assumptions must be reconsidered. This kind of reasoning—deriving consequences from basic premises and then testing them against experience—is at the heart of the scientific method. - History of Science:
Historically, the debate over the nature of motion was central to the transition from Aristotelian physics to the modern scientific worldview. The Aristotelian view, with its division between the “natural” (often circular in the heavens) and “violent” (often linear on Earth) motions, was gradually replaced by the unified framework of inertia and gravitational force articulated by Galileo and Newton. The argument encapsulated in the sentence reflects an earlier stage in this evolution, where the inherent properties of motion were still being debated and where logical deductions—if taken at face value—could lead to conclusions that we now know to be false.
In summary, while the sentence may seem abstract, it captures a pivotal moment in the history of scientific thought: an era when the assumptions about motion were being rigorously scrutinized. It reminds us that the path to our current understanding of the physical world has been paved with hypotheses and logical arguments—some of which led to dead ends—that ultimately forced us to refine our ideas to match observed reality.